Blu-ray vs HD DVD: Which One Is Better?

Since I started this blog -- and have had the opportunity to receive review samples of the latest HD-DVD and Blu-Ray from the various studios and publicity houses -- I have been asked many times about the format war and in particular, which format was “better”. After viewing countless releases on both formats, I have formulated an opinion on this issue and the opinion is neither.

First off, I guess you should look at each formats’ spec sheets. What you will notice is how similar they are. They both support the same video codecs, namely MPEG2, MPEG4( AVC) and VC-1. They both support the same audio formats as well, namely Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD, PCM and DTS HD Master Audio. Both discs look the same. In fact, they look like a DVD. The differences? Well, there is no question that Blu-Ray does have an edge in both storage capacity as well as data transmission rate. In regards to storage, Blu-Ray has two sized discs, the single layer 25 GB or BD 25 disc and the dual layer 50 GB or BD 50 disc. ON the other hand, HD-DVD has the single layer 15 GB disc and the double layer 30 GB disc. Of course, the HD-DVD camp has approved a new spec for a 51 GB disc or TL 51 disc which has more storage capacity than Blu-Ray’s BD 50 disc. However, there are no releases using the TL 51 standard as of yet nor have any been announced that I am aware of. Perhaps at CES 2008? Furthermore, it has yet to be confirmed that a TL 51 disc will play on any the HD-DVD players already on the market. Therefore, until the issues related to the TL 51 disc are cleared up, I will give the storage edge to Blu-Ray.

In addition to the larger storage capacity, Blu-Ray has a higher data rate for the video codecs, which in theory may result in better picture quality, although the faster data rate seems more important for the older MPEG2 than for MPEG4 and especially VC-1. As a result of the larger storage capacity, Blu-Ray discs can include an uncompressed PCM track for movies on the BD 50 discs in addition to lossless tracks such as Dolby Digital True HD. Blu-Ray discs can also include more varied foreign language tracks. While not really important in the US, it is useful for release internationally, especially in Europe. A BD disc can also handle more HD extras where HD-DVD may have to resort to using a second disc.

However, the real issue is what do these “better” specs get us in regards to picture and audio quality. After all, that is why there formats were created in the first place, to deliver better PQ and AQ as well as invigorate the flagging DVD market. In short, from my review of both formats’ real world performance it is clear to me that both deliver the same video and audio experience despite Blu-Ray’s better specs. Both are capable of stellar video performance. I have been utterly flabbergasted by the video presentation on both formats. It is amazing that such video quality can now be delivered to your home.

There are a number examples of discs where the HD-DVD disc is encoded with VC-1 and the Blu-Ray disc with a high bit rate AVC encode with the pictures on each looking identical. What is apparent to me is that the skill of the compressionist
doing the encode is more important than the codec used, the data transmission rate of the available disc space. The same is true for audio. Some of the PCM tracks on Blu-Ray are outstanding. HD-DVD just does not have the space for uncompressed PCM tracks and relies on Dolby True HD, Dolby Digital Plus and DTS MA. Blu-Ray tracks encoded with PCM sound the same as those encoded with Dolby True HD on their HD-DVD counterparts.

Perfect examples of this are the new Warner Brothers releases of the Harry Potter series as well as the stunning
Blade Runner release. The fact that PCM and True HD are capable of the same stunning audio quality is also illustrated on the Blu-Ray release of Spider-Man 3 which contains both. Provided the source is the same, namely 48 kHz/16-20-24 bit for both PCM and True HD, the resulting quality is the same. The more important factor in stunning audio performance is the quality of the mix. This is illustrated by the HD-DVD release of Transformers which is truly a reference track despite the fact that it is “only” Dolby Digital Plus, albeit at 1.5 mbps. What is beyond dispute is that both formats are both clearly better than DVD in terms of PQ and AQ. The clarity, color purity, three dimensionality and detail on both high def formats is amazing. If you have an HDTV and are a movie fan, you really owe it to yourself to check out both formats. My recommendation is to by one player of each to cover your bases. If you don’t have the space, consider the new dual format player from Samsung which may sell for $799.00.If you are a film buff and want to enjoy movies in the best quality ever available in the home, why not get both so that you have access to all the available releases, regardless of format? That is the path I have chosen and I am glad I have, even though my rack is now jammed full of equipment.

As to which format will eventually win, I personally see no reason why both formats can’t survive and even thrive. The gaming industry has the Wii, Xbox 360, PS3, PS2 as well as a few others. Games are released across various platforms and the brick and mortar stores carry them all and they all sell well. I see no reason why the same can’t be true for high def discs.

Will one side win? Hard to really say at this point. I know that many have their opinions on this subject and that there is a lot of pressure from some folks to have one format win out. There are those who believe that Warner Brothers can end the war by going exclusive. No question that WB could go along way to ending the war by going exclusive, However, by doing so, they will be giving up a lot of sales from one side or the other. It has been reported in a thread on the AVS Forum that a review of the recent sales figures for the Potter series shows the BD discs marginally outselling the HD-DVD discs, by a factor of 1.2 and 1.3 to 1. Not much of a difference I say.

On the other hand, the latest figures on the sales of Planet Earth on HD-DVD are outpacing those on Blu-Ray. If the sales of HD-DVD devices which have been reported to total 750,000 surpass the one million mark by the end of the Christmas season, it will be hard to Warner Brothers to go BD exclusive and ignore such a substantial market. Will they? While I don’t have a crystal ball, I’ll chip in my 2 cents anyway and say no. While Blu-Ray clearly has a lead in overall sales, that will not be enough IMHO to cause Warners to go Blu-Ray exclusive if the WB sales on each title remain fairly equal between both formats over the next few months. Keep an eye on those same title sales figures. If they remain anywhere between 1:1 and 1:5:1, I do not see WB changing their stance, especially if HD-DVD player sales top 1 million. In fact, the 1 million mark may cause other studios to go neutral as well. In any event, it will be a very interesting first quarter regardless of the result.

Finally, speaking of Warner Brothers, I would like to commend them for their outstanding effort on this week’s Blade Runner release. While I have not done formal review on that title, I have watched it and it is amazing. The clarity, color and detail is stunning. It looks so much better than its prior home video releases on laser disc and DVD as well as its recent high def showing on HDNet Movies, that you would swear that you are watching a different film. As good as the video is, the audio is even better. What an incredible mix. You would think that the film was made yesterday not 1982. This release earns 5 stars across the board on both formats, which look and sound identical. It is amazing what a 4k restoration can do for a film in high def. The effort on Blade Runner even surpasses Warner’s prior restoration efforts on The Searchers and Grand Prix. It is a shame that more catalogue releases on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray don’t get similar treatment. The difference is that dramatic. Let’s hope that in 2008 and beyond, more titles are restored and remastered with the same care and treatment as Blade Runner by all the major studios. Well done!

For more high-def news and views, please click: TVPredictions.com.

64 Comments:

At December 21, 2007 9:34 AM , Blogger baconandeggs said...

good, non biased commentary. I hope both formats succeed. competition is good.

 
At December 21, 2007 9:48 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for the excellent, well thought out commentary. I agree with many of your conclusions and if all movies were available in both formats, I wouldn't mind if both formats went on forever.

Because this is not currently the case, I jumped to the blu-ray camp this week and will be pulling for blu-ray going forward.

 
At December 21, 2007 9:58 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Warner already seems to have made its choice.

Warner is confirmed to be speaking at 2008 CES HD-DVD Press Conference. Warner's presence at CES's Blu-Ray Press Conference cannot be verified at this time, however.

Warner's decision announced at 2008 CES will finally end this format war once and for all.

 
At December 21, 2007 10:09 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have both formats, but will be selling my HD DVD collection on EBay very shortly.

I was happy with HD DVD, but once I bought my first few Blu-ray discs, I just don't have that much interest in my HD DVDs anymore.

~Alan

 
At December 21, 2007 10:17 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

i think blu ray is the better of the two but wish what you get on blu ray you can get on hd dvd so then we can really find out who is the winner

 
At December 21, 2007 10:18 AM , OpenID mrbarker2312 said...

Why only mention one dual format movie when all other dual format movies sell at a 2-1 or better advantage on blu-ray? I agree with the article that as far as just the movie files go, there isnt a glaring difference, but as mnay of friends have stated they dont buy DVDs just for the movie, like I do.. I could care less who wins or if both thrive, but this is a fairly biased article. There is also no mention of the BD200 disc

 
At December 21, 2007 10:23 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Quote: "However, the real issue is what do these “better” specs get us in regards to picture and audio quality. After all, that is why there formats were created in the first place, to deliver better PQ and AQ as well as invigorate the flagging DVD market. In short, from my review of both formats’ real world performance it is clear to me that both deliver the same video and audio experience despite Blu-Ray’s better specs. Both are capable of stellar video performance. I have been utterly flabbergasted by the video presentation on both formats. It is amazing that such video quality can now be delivered to your home."

I find these type of comments on blogs like this everywhere. It just leads me to believe most bloggers don't have half a brain between them all. Of course the quality is the same for movies on dual format releases. Why would a studio double their work when they can do the same work for twice the profit. Hence they transfer at the same rates for both formats. If there was only one format chances are better you would get optimized AQ/PQ for it. Could you also imagine the uproar from the format who received the lesser quality transfer if they would even consider it?

Lets use our heads in this format war. Much better then allowing corporate America to think for us.

 
At December 21, 2007 10:28 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for the thoughtful and even-handed analysis.
I too wondered why home video discs could not support multiple formats like videogames but have been told my numerous studio execs that it is not the same demographic and therefore will not work (and has never worked) unless there is a single home video format.
My question: if both formats are nearly identical, why not adopt the one that already has all but one major hardware company manufacturing players for the format and all but one major studio that has published in the format. Quicker and easier to get 1 manufacturer and 1 studio to adapt than to get more than 170 companies, isn't it?
BTW, to the commenter who said Warner press conference is confirmed for CES, that is not true -- I spoke to head executive at Warner Thursday who says nothing has been set for CES at this point.
Scott Hettrick

 
At December 21, 2007 10:39 AM , Anonymous Joe Whip said...

I didn't mention the BD 200 disc as there are no releases on it and won't be for who knows how long and I am not sure that it will play on all BD capable players. As for the others that think I am biased, there is no pleasing everyone. I do mention that there are great looking discs on both formats even though they may be different films. There are films that are released on differnet formats by the same studio with different encodes at different bit rates and they still look the same. What more can you do? Geez....

 
At December 21, 2007 10:43 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Joe, re: your defense that you didn't mention BD 200 (or even BD 100 discs) because there are no releases on it, I think the commenter was referring to the fact that you did mention HD DVD TL51, which is the same situation, no?
Again, great analysis.
Scott Hettrick

 
At December 21, 2007 10:49 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The commentary takes the high road and doesn't really come to any substantial conclusion, however what was failed to be mentioned here is that most retailers do not want two formats taking up all that shelf space in their stores. Not the same for games as they are not released as quickly as films. Also, many people don't want the expense or complication of either dual format players or two machines in their rack. Based on sales data and movie studio support, I've chosen Blu.

 
At December 21, 2007 10:51 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Scott Hettrick

> Quicker and easier to get 1 manufacturer and 1 studio to adapt than to get more than 170 companies, isn't it?

It's not that simple. On Blu-Ray side, Sony and Samsung claim 90% of stand-alone player market share. On HD-DVD side, dozens of Chinese DVD player manufacturers are preparing to ship low-cost HD-DVD players to the US following the HD-DVD-China(China's national HD disc standard)'s launch in China in April 2008(HD-DVD and HD-DVD-China are physically identical, differing on firmware only). A firmware swap turns an HD-DVD-China player into an HD-DVD player.

Furthermore, there are no "Chinese" Blu-Ray players. On HD-DVD side, Toshiba provide hardware design and Microsoft provide firmware to the Chinese manufacturers. On Blu-Ray side, no one's providing any technical assistance to the Chinese. This has driven Chinese manufacturers into arms of Toshiba and Microsoft, and several millions of $99~149 Chinese HD-DVD players are set to flood the US market in 2008. We already have seen what happens when HD-DVD player price drops to $99 during Walmart sale, during which time Toshiba moved over 100K HD-DVD players in three days through Walmart and Best Buy.

By going Blu-Ray, you are betting your future on a console, a failed console that is. PS3 is widely considered a complete failure among gaming circule. So do movie studios really want to bet its future on a failed game console?

> BTW, to the commenter who said Warner press conference is confirmed for CES, that is not true -- I spoke to head executive at Warner Thursday who says nothing has been set for CES at this point.

This very article contains link to the confirmation of Warner's presentation during CES HD-DVD press conference.

http://www.soundadviceblog.com/?p=705

 
At December 21, 2007 10:53 AM , Anonymous Joe Whip said...

Scott, I mentioned TL 51 becuase it has been a hot topic on other boards and there has been some rumblings about releases using it in 2008. The same can't be said for BD 100 or 200 which I doubt we will see anytime in the forseeable future as a medium for movies. By that time, HD downloads may be what is hot as that is where I think the studios want to go eventually anyway. Perhaps for computer storage but with portable hard drives with much more storage already here, BD 100 and 200 may not even be all that successful there either. Only time will tell!

 
At December 21, 2007 10:55 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sometime in the 1st Quarter of 2008 Warner is going to take the old HD-DVD dog behind the woodshed and put it out of its misery. Blu-Ray is dominating HD-DVD in sales, and nothing proves that things are going to change. Toshiba already priced other HD player manufacturers out of the market with their firesale 1080i players. Even the prices of their 1080p players are dropping at a disturbing rate. Not to mention all of the movies they give away with them. We keep hearing how these cheap HD players are going to sell movies, but apparently these players were sold to current HD owners as 2nd players, because it's not showing in the sales. Look at the release schedule for Jan-Mar on both formats. HD will be completely demolished by Blu. They simply don't have the variety of desirable titles that Blu has. Walk into a Best Buy and look at both sections and honestly tell yourself who has the better selection of titles that the public will want. Hopefully at CES Warner will take HD-DVD off life support and stop this useless "war". Oh, and Warner will be at CES for Blu. We heard the same FUD how Warner "didn't renew their membership with the BDA", and look how that turned out. Are there any HD-only owners out there who don't have a vendetta against Sony? Because that seems to be the only reason why someone would choose HD over Blu. Blu owners are tired of getting "dumbed down for HD" ports of films on Blu from Warner. Just because HD isn't on the same technological level as Blu, why should the more informed customer have to suffer?

 
At December 21, 2007 10:55 AM , Blogger Frode said...

"As to which format will eventually win, I personally see no reason why both formats can’t survive and even thrive."

I do, and I'll tell you why. While bloggers like to comment on the various aspects of the format war, unfortunately they have very little concept of the economic realities, as this article is a perfect example of. It's incredibly simple actually, and can be summed up in two words: "Shelf space."

Shelf space is actually the primary reason why DVDs are selling badly. There's a glut of titles out there, and studios have shorter windows to sell their content and differentiate it from the competition. Consumer apathy has taken over as well, which makes it even harder. If you then want to put out not only ONE more competing product but instead TWO, you're setting yourself up for big problems. Your content then has to take up twice the shelf space, and all the logistics issues that arise because of it. The perception of there being a format war also creates uncertainty among the potential buying public, which also insures that sales and format adoption are low. They need to send a clear message to consumers that it's safe to buy, or they're never going to bother with it.

You mention that Warner would be giving up money by going single format, but the thing is - they're not really giving up much money at all. The cost that goes into BD and HD DVD production is so large that only the big selling titles are making money right now, the Harry Potters and the Blade Runners. The rest are either losing money, or barely breaking even. When you then look at it from a long term perspective, the loss Warner would suffer from going single format now VS the long term consequences of releasing on two formats is peanuts. Warner knows this and is going to have to make a choice at some point. What remains is seeing whether that choice is based on market realities or company politics.

 
At December 21, 2007 11:01 AM , OpenID mrbarker2312 said...

Joe Whip...

You also dont reply to my comments you mention Planet Earth as selling better on HD-DVD then Blu-Ray but dont mention the numerous other titles that sell at a far better margin on Blu-Ray then HD-DVD.. I know these comments might make me sound like Im one sided, but thats far from the case.. Both formats have exclusive titles I own and want, but I would like it pointed out this is hardly a biased article.

 
At December 21, 2007 11:07 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

> Sometime in the 1st Quarter of 2008 Warner is going to take the old HD-DVD dog behind the woodshed and put it out of its misery.

HD-DVD's Warner's baby(Toshiba and Warner co-invented DVD and HD-DVD) while Blu-Ray's Sony's dog. Mommies don't put their own babies out of misery. It is almost certain(With Warner's CES HD-DVD Press Conference presentation) that they are not dropping HD-DVD. The question is, will Warner stay neutral(They stated they wouldn't) or drop Blu-Ray(The most logical choice).

> Blu-Ray is dominating HD-DVD in sales

Warner hasn't seen this with their own neutral titles. HD-DVD:Blu-Ray sales ratio is 1.8:1 for Planet Earth and 1:1.2 for Harry Potter And The Order Of The Phoenix.

> and nothing proves that things are going to change. Toshiba already priced other HD player manufacturers out of the market with their firesale 1080i players. Even the prices of their 1080p players are dropping at a disturbing rate.

You haven't seen nothing yet, until Chinese HD-DVD players hit the US in 2q2008.

> but apparently these players were sold to current HD owners as 2nd players, because it's not showing in the sales.

The gap is narrowing.

> Hopefully at CES Warner will take HD-DVD off life support and stop this useless "war".

Yea, take its own baby life-support or shoot your competitor's dog. An easy decision to make.

> Oh, and Warner will be at CES for Blu.

Confirmation please?

> We heard the same FUD how Warner "didn't renew their membership with the BDA", and look how that turned out.

Warner still hasn't reviewed their membership.

> Just because HD isn't on the same technological level as Blu, why should the more informed customer have to suffer?

Me being a Wall Street trading platform programmer can talk about how Blu-Ray interactivity is broke beyond repair, but let us not.

Blu-Ray has a real-world capacity cap of 44 GB because press yield nose-dives past that, and it isn't even technically possible to press triple layer Blu-Ray discs.

HD-DVD on the other hand tops out at 51 GB, readable by HD-A1(The first HD-DVD player) with an updated firmware.

 
At December 21, 2007 11:13 AM , Anonymous Neo said...

This is a very well written article. I read several websites daily, often in support for Blu-ray because of its technical advantages. However, I own both formats and both are great products. Although technically Blu-ray seems to have advantages, HD DVD has produced breath-taking images. View the Bourne series, Matrix Trilogy, Transformers, and King Kong. Simply amazing PQ & AQ. On the other hand, the best HD image to date, in my humble opinion belongs to the Blu-ray camp with Disney's Ratatouille. With all that said, I hope both formats survive and that the current studios release their films in both formats. Let the consumer decide which format they want to buy.

 
At December 21, 2007 11:23 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anonymous commenter:

> This very article contains link to the confirmation of Warner's presentation during CES HD-DVD press conference.

http://www.soundadviceblog.com/?p=705

You may be confusing a couple of things happening at CES. Warner execs are currently scheduled to appear at both of the Blu-ray and HD DVD dinners that follow the Bill Gates presentation on Sunday evening.
As for a Warner press conference, they have reserved a room for 9 a.m. Monday, Jan. 7, just in case they want to make any announcement, as many studios and companies frequently do, but as of Thursday night there is no press announcement booked and Warner has not made any plans to hold a press conference at CES, though it is still a possibility.

> By going Blu-Ray, you are betting your future on a console, a failed console that is. PS3 is widely considered a complete failure among gaming circule. So do movie studios really want to bet its future on a failed game console?

Oh please, a complete failure with 11 million units sold worldwide within a couple months? This comment either shows your bias or that you are very ill-informed.

Scott Hettrick

 
At December 21, 2007 11:31 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The reason that both formats cannot continue survive is that JoeBlow consumer wants to buy ONE player that will play ALL the movies he wants to watch. He doesnt care about anything else. Right now studios are divided (with more in the Blu-Ray camp obviously, however there are still some major titles not available on that format)

The gaming console argument is moot. How many games are there avail for the XBOX 360? Couple hundred? How about the PS3? Another couple of hundred? There are THOUSANDS of movies available, if not TENS of THOUSANDS. The movie studios simply cannot afford to produce all these in BOTH formats! That will not happen.

In order for the HD movie market to take off, ONE format needs to "win". If Warner Brothers goes Blu-Ray exclusive, that most likely would turn the tide to Blu-Ray for good. If they go to HD-DVD, the battle will continue for years, probably, with both sides (and the consumer) ultimately "losing".

 
At December 21, 2007 11:34 AM , Anonymous Jodice said...

Great blog Joe. Like you, I have both formats, PS3 and HD-A30, and agree with most of what you said.

I love how Blu-Ray fan-boys find all of these articles and post lies. I am format agnostic, but the Blu-ray fanboy's make me hope for Blu-Ray's demise.

Like the 1-company supporting HD-DVD; 170 supporting Blu-Ray lie.

The truth:
HD-DVD 137 Companies in the HD-DVD Promotional Group
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_information/Section-14009/Index.html
Blu-Ray 171 Companies in the BDA
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_information/Section-14009/Index.html

Or the "all but one studio supprot Blu_ray lie.
The Truth:
First of all, there are 6 Major Studios:
1. Sony Pictures (Columbia, MGM, UA, SP Classics, Screen Gems, Tristar, Destination)
2. Buena Vista MPG (Walt Disney, Touchstone, Miramax, Holloywood)
3. Fox FE (20th Century Fox, Fox Searchlight, Fox Faith, Fox Atomic)
4. Warner Bros. Ent. (Warner Bros., New Line, HBO, WB Independant, Picturehouse, Castle Rock ent.)
5. Paramount MPG (Paramount, Dreamworks, Paramount Classics, Vantage)
6. NBC Universal (Universal, Focus, Rogue)
Of these 6: 3 Are Blu-Ray exclusive, 2 are HD-DVD exclusive, 1 is Dual

There are also 3 so-called mini-major studios:
1. Lions Gate Ent.
2. The Weinstein Company
3. IMAX
Of these 3: 1 Blu-Ray exclusive, 1 HD-DVD exclusive, 1 Dual)

 
At December 21, 2007 11:47 AM , Anonymous Joe Whip said...

Mr. Barker, my article was not intended to be an all inclusive look who sold what piece. I chose the Harry Potter as it is the lastest big release from WB. I don;t think the older titles really matter all that much into WB's analysis. I think they will be watching the new day and dates titles the most as they reflect sales with current hadware in place, not that a of a few months ago. As for PE, I pointed that out as it is amazing that this long after release, it is still selling a lot of titles and at an 1:8 advantage for HD-DVD. I am trying to think what WB would be looking at and considering in making a decision to go exclusive or remain neutral. I should point out that Paramount was selling more BD titles than HD when they went HD exclusive and please don't mention pay offs, as if both sides don't do it. I think it is clear at this point that there is more going into these decisions than simply looking at what title is selling better on one format than the other at any one moment.

 
At December 21, 2007 11:49 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Quote "By going Blu-Ray, you are betting your future on a console, a failed console that is. PS3 is widely considered a complete failure among gaming circule. So do movie studios really want to bet its future on a failed game console?"

Yeah, ok. Spoken like a true 360 owner.

This PS3 fan was more than happy to buy my son 5 titles and three movies to put under the tree this year.

I think the post-holiday PS3 console and media sales numbers are going to be very impressive indeed, striking a huge blow to the HD-DVD format (As if it needed another one).

 
At December 21, 2007 11:49 AM , Anonymous Joe Whip said...

BTW, I do apprecaite the nice words, even the bad ones if they show some rational thought. TIme go have some apple tea and enjoy some movies!

 
At December 21, 2007 11:53 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jodice,
Just to clarify, I didn't say that only 1 studio supports HD DVD, I said that all but one major studio has published in Blu-ray -- Universal is the only "major" studio that has not published in Blu-ray (Paramount and Warner have done both). Sony, Fox, and Disney are "major" studios that have not published in HD DVD.
And I said there is only one "major" manufactuer (Toshiba) manufacturing HD DVD players. By major, I mean companies like Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Sharp, etc., all manufacturing Blu-ray machines, not to mention many of those same companies, plus Dell and others, manufacturing Blu-ray computer drives.
I don't think I am inaccurate or misleading with those facts, but please let me know if I am missing something.
Forget the numbers of members in each association, do you really think HD DVD has comparable support to Blu-ray?
Scott Hettrick

 
At December 21, 2007 11:55 AM , OpenID mrbarker2312 said...

I dont recall mentioning anything about pay-offs.. In this day and age I think it would take the most naive of person to not understand big business is not innocent... Nor did I mention Harry Potter... Just pointing out you only stated how well two titles were doing on one side in a "bias" article. But thanks for adding words into my argument :)

 
At December 21, 2007 12:09 PM , Blogger Frode said...

You're right that it's not just about which title sells more, it's about looking at the entire ecosystem of the two formats. And by that I mean all parts of the equation, movie makers, studios, authoring houses, pressing plants, CE manufacturers, distributors, retailers AND consumers. It's about what format has the most long term support and infrastructure from all these. It's about looking how the chips have fallen down over time since the start of the format war. Those are the market realities.

Since you brought it up, the political realities come into play when you have someone that's willing to pay and accept bribes. The total revenue from all the BD and HD DVD sold to date wouldn't even begin to cover the payout for Paramount's and Dreamworks's switch, never mind the actual profit the studios get left with after costs are covered. It's such an insane amount of money compared to the market situation that all other considerations get thrown out the window. They get more money from the deal than they ever would have made from sales, and once it's over they can cash in by releasing their HD DVD titles on BD again. It's a win-win situation for them, and they basically "broke the rules" by ignoring market realities and going for the short term payoff.

 
At December 21, 2007 12:21 PM , Anonymous Jazar said...

Anyone who wants the HD Format war to continue on like the console war isn't a fan of movies at all.

Competition exists quite nicely with ONE FORMAT. This war just dissuades the public from giving a damn.

 
At December 21, 2007 12:25 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Scott Hettrick

> You may be confusing a couple of things happening at CES. Warner execs are currently scheduled to appear at both of the Blu-ray and HD DVD dinners that follow the Bill Gates presentation on Sunday evening.

We are talking about CONFIRMED Warner presentation at 2-hour long primetime HD-DVD Promotional Group press conference to speak about HD-DVD. It is not confirmed if Warner will attend similar but much shorter 1-hour long BDA press conference.

> Oh please, a complete failure with 11 million units sold worldwide within a couple months?

Well, PS3's worldwide sales stand at approx. 6.5 million as of last month. In the US, it's just 2.45 million against Xbox 360's 7,864,800 while Wii's 6,019,400 at the end of November 2007(Source NPD). In fact, PS3 sales growth curve is tracking worse than GameCube and Xbox, both undisputed failures.

US LTD Sales November 2007

Xbox 360 : 7,864K
Wii : 6,019K
PS3 : 2,450K(662K Blu-Ray players effective based on official attach rate of 1)
HD-DVD Player : 500K
Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive : 255K
Blu-Ray Player : 220K

> By major, I mean companies like Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Sharp, etc., all manufacturing Blu-ray machines

Sony : Does not manufacture any Blu-Ray player, all Sony brands are actually rebadged Pioneers.
Panasonic : Manufactures, but doesn't really care since all they are interested in are recorders and PC burners.
Samsung : Dual-format supporter
Phillips : Does not manufacture any Blu-Ray player, all are OEMs.
Pioneer : Manufactures for itself and Sony.
Sharp : Manufactures for itself.

There are no forthcoming Chinese Blu-Ray players because the entry barrier is too high and Blu-Ray standalone players do not sell.

Some poster

> In order for the HD movie market to take off, ONE format needs to "win". If Warner Brothers goes Blu-Ray exclusive, that most likely would turn the tide to Blu-Ray for good. If they go to HD-DVD, the battle will continue for years, probably, with both sides (and the consumer) ultimately "losing".

Actually the war ends when Warner drops Blu-Ray too. Because Disney will then go neutral, plus the arrival of millions of $99~149 Chinese HD-DVD players that replace traditional DVD upscalers. And then there is Microsoft's hydrogen bomb, Xbox Ultimate(Xbox 360 with an integrated HD-DVD drive).

> I am trying to think what WB would be looking at and considering in making a decision to go exclusive or remain neutral.

First is financial insentive from either Microsoft(who just wrote a $500 million check to Viacom) or Sony.

Second is stand alone player sales and the availability of low-cost Chinese players.

Warner does not count PS3 sales, BTW.

 
At December 21, 2007 12:33 PM , Anonymous julian said...

so i gusse toshiba gave u 150 million too don`t worrie mircosoft will give u another 500 million next month so this cheap hd dvd format dosent lost rigth away

 
At December 21, 2007 12:40 PM , OpenID mrbarker2312 said...

Well this thread went down hill fast... Lots of wrong info being thrown around now... Disney is not going neutral ever they are just as tied to blu as Fox and Sony.. Pick whichever format has the content you want on it and be happy. As far as Specs go, blu is the clear winner, but content is more important then specs. The new firmware update on the PS3 makes every available advantage HD-DVD had over Blu an option for those that have PS3's... The Blu 1.1 Profile gives PIP and internet feature. So now HD-DVD's only advantage is content and that is a consumer decision... But stop arguing wrong information just because youre a fan boy of one side

 
At December 21, 2007 1:07 PM , Blogger Baff said...

Thanks for the fairly even handed evaluation Joe.

"By going Blu-Ray, you are betting your future on a console, a failed console that is. PS3 is widely considered a complete failure among gaming circule. So do movie studios really want to bet its future on a failed game console?"

Only a few crackpots who know nothing about consoles think that. PS3 sales have been nearly identical to 360 sales in its first year, and PS3 sales are now starting to pass 360 sales. This has been a bad year for the PS3 in that many of its big titles were delayed until next year, but all that really means is that next year the PS3 will get a double dose of big games which will boost sales significantly starting around the middle of the year.

"Oh please, a complete failure with 11 million units sold worldwide within a couple months?"

Sorry Scott, but about 8 million PS3s have sold after 13 months. But that is still clearly not a complete failure.

For comparison, the 360 has sold 15 million over 25 months. Not sure how many 360 HD-DVD add-ons have sold, but I think its something like 250,000. (I'm kind of surprised that the number is as high as it is, since the 360 is very loud and disruptive of movie watching.)

Anyway, the PS3 is having far more impact on the BD/HD war than the 360 is.

 
At December 21, 2007 1:50 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

All,
I didn't word my numbers on PS3 well enough -- I said 11 million within a couple months. I meant they are projecting to be at 11 million within a couple months. Yes, last month they were at 2.7 million in North America and 9 million worldwide. That's hardly a complete (or any other kind) of failure.
Scott Hettrick

 
At December 21, 2007 2:04 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous commenter:

> We are talking about CONFIRMED Warner presentation at 2-hour long primetime HD-DVD Promotional Group press conference to speak about HD-DVD. It is not confirmed if Warner will attend similar but much shorter 1-hour long BDA press conference.

Believe what you want. Warner execs are confirmed for both Sunday night presentations. I will be at both as well. But trust me, if they make a decision one way or the other it won't be nothing to back out of one or the other. Their scheduled appearance at this point means nothing except that they have made no decision yet (as of last night) or would rather not show their hand by NOT scheduling an appearance at one or the other.
Meanwhile, as I said, they have not submitted any plans for a press conference on their own at CES yet either -- they have only reserved a room just in case they have ANYTHING they wish to announce.

> Sony : Does not manufacture any Blu-Ray player, all Sony brands are actually rebadged Pioneers.
Panasonic : Manufactures, but doesn't really care since all they are interested in are recorders and PC burners.
Samsung : Dual-format supporter
Phillips : Does not manufacture any Blu-Ray player, all are OEMs.
Pioneer : Manufactures for itself and Sony.
Sharp : Manufactures for itself.

I think most of us know most of those details but thanks for prviding specifics (BTW, Panasonic is arguably selling Blu-ray more aggressively than Sony, so your argument is not valid about Panasonic).
You confirm my point that four of the biggest manufacturers are manufacturing Blu-ray players and you forgot that Sony is also manufacturing the world's most popular Blu-ray player, called the PS3, and will be making their own Blu-ray players of the next-gen models.
So that underscores my point that far more manufacturers are manufacturing Blu-ray players than HD DVD players and even more are selling Blu-ray players under their brands than HD DVD, even if they are being made by another company.
Scott Hettrick

 
At December 21, 2007 3:05 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

ps3 a failure? the ps3 is outselling the 360 everywhere else in the WORLD besides the US...and its not far behind here. next year is when the big hitters for ps3 are going to be released and the tides will definitely change..big exclusive release next year for 360??? umm....good luck with that

 
At December 21, 2007 3:55 PM , Anonymous jughead said...

toshiba is tupid to think that ps3 owners do not buy blu ray movies and that these systems do not count as players. How many ps3 owners would have a bluray player if there was not one in the console. Maybe not all but definetly alot.

 
At December 21, 2007 4:22 PM , Blogger Baff said...

Nielsen released some statistics about consoles, HDTVs, etc.

http://www.cepro.com/article/gamers_ripe_for_high_end_audio_and_video_systems_research_shows/D1/

The article is 3 pages long. Most of the statistics don't say a whole lot, but some are interesting.

 
At December 21, 2007 5:41 PM , Anonymous DaveBG said...

The trouble with Blu-ray is it's almost total reliance on PS3.

PS3 owners do buy movies, just not enough of them.

Once the $100 HD DVD players hit in the 1st half of 2008 it's all over.

 
At December 21, 2007 7:00 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

i would go with blu ray even thought i get acted by all this hd dud

 
At December 21, 2007 9:26 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Consider the figures from Formatwars, where 76% of blu-rays have uncompressed sound compared to 17% for hd-dvd. This is a huge plus for audio fans. You did not mention the 2.5 million Playstations, which are in addition to the predicted 400,000 stand-alone blu-ray players, making it almost 3 million blu-=ray players in homes. As a retailer with 8 stores selling high def movies and players, I can assure you that about 50% of my customers have purchased the Playstation 3 for movie viewing first, gaming second, so the theory that gamers don't buy movies is very funny, all people buy movies. We sold out of 900 copies in our stores of the Simpsons movie. We asked each customer what their main purpose for their player was, if it was indeed a Playstation. 45% of those buying the movie were mainly gamers. So gamers do buy movies.

As for Warner, they are a movie studio that wants the format war over, so the public feels comfortable with entering the arena. If they go blu, then surely with 75% of Hollywood output on one format, I need say no more, blu would win quickly. But if they go hd-dvd, we have a real stalemate, with the libraries of Paramount, Dreamworks, Warner and Universal for hd-dvd, and the libraries of Columbia, 20th Century Fox, United Artists, MGM, Disney, Lionsgate, and Anchorbay on the blu side. We have a split and a much longer format war. From strictly a business standpoint of acceptance of this physical media format for future sales of their catalog and new releases, the last thing they want is the public to be so turned off they stay away.

You also did not mention the support behind blu-ray. Every single hardware manufacturer supports blu-ray except Toshiba, and one player each from Onkyo and Ventura. The computer support is 75% on the blu side as well. Warner will also consider this in their decision and for a corporation to go against the general decisions of the manufacturers of the players that play their movies is not in their best interest.

Very well written otherwise. It was a good blog to read. In my 8 stores, we started with both formats. After we got to a 5 to 1 sales lead for blu-ray software, we stopped buying new hd-dvd movies for rental and increased our blu-ray rental and sale selection to include almost every release. I might also add that as a renter retailer, the scratch-proof coating on the blu-ray discs is a dream! They come in with scratches and gum and everything else on them, and everything, including the scratches, wipe off completely, no trace whatsoever. This is a hugely overlooked benifit, investing in a format, customer or retailer, that software lasts much longer.

 
At December 21, 2007 9:30 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The announcement of Warner talking at the hd-dvd CDES presentation says absolutely nothing. This was obviously released as a format-war-hot issue to create debate, just as was Warner's statements before, many which were proven false.

I can't believe how gullible people are with internet information. Warner has always spoken at this event, and spoken at both hd-dvd and blu-ray presentations. The minute I saw the headline, which I believe came from the hd-dvd faboy site EngadgedHD, I knew this fury would start.

 
At December 21, 2007 9:32 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The 100gb blu-ray discs have been tested and work, the current blu-ray players, with firmware upgrade, will play up to 8 layers, thus a possibility of over 200 or 300 gb. This means you could buy an entire high def season of a tv show on one disc. It IS coming. This was presented at Electronics Expo 07 a few months ago.

 
At December 21, 2007 9:32 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The 100gb blu-ray discs have been tested and work, the current blu-ray players, with firmware upgrade, will play up to 8 layers, thus a possibility of over 200 or 300 gb. This means you could buy an entire high def season of a tv show on one disc. It IS coming. This was presented at Electronics Expo 07 a few months ago.

 
At December 21, 2007 11:30 PM , Anonymous Krisztoforo said...

"As to which format will eventually win, I personally see no reason why both formats can’t survive and even thrive. The gaming industry has the Wii, Xbox 360, PS3, PS2 as well as a few others. Games are released across various platforms and the brick and mortar stores carry them all and they all sell well. I see no reason why the same can’t be true for high def discs.
"

One problem with having both blu and hddvd survive on the long run is competition from cable and satellite service. Hell, I haven't rented a single DVD in over a year because I prefer to pay for HD On Demand which is much better quality. Sure it's not as widespread yet, but cable companies are ramping up this service and DirecTV is on the verge of introducing it as well. If this war goes on for too long consumers will just get used to renting high-def movies via services like HD On Demand *before* blu and hddvd receives widespread acceptance. Then it will be really hard to convince the public to switch to either of these new formats. Right now there is a huge picture and sound quality difference between DVD and the new formats (if you have the right equipment of course). But the difference is not so clear between HD On-Demand or HD movies via cable or satellite and the new formats. At least not enough for millions of households to switch.

 
At December 22, 2007 5:11 AM , Anonymous Joe Whip said...

I have said it before and will say it again, neither format will win out vs. downloads. While VOD will be a factor, it will be HD downloads what will be dominate. The studios actually prefer the download distribution model as it gives them greatr controal especially wth both AACS and BD+ hacked. While I am nearly 50 and prefer physical media, like CD's. LP's, books and newspaers, I can't say the same for many others who prefer the convenience pf downloads. In 5 years, if only one or both of the HD optical media formats is still around, they will be dying under the crush of HD downloads with broadband speeds much faster than what we can dream about today and incredibly cheap portable hard drives or whatever other portable storage media is available by then.

 
At December 22, 2007 6:24 AM , Blogger Baff said...

There are still a huge number of people without access to broadband. The internet also needs to be expanded to be able to handle the ever expanding load. There isn't a popular method for SD downloads yet, much less HD.

While HD downloads may be the future, that time certainly hasn't arrived yet.

 
At December 22, 2007 7:27 AM , Anonymous DaveBG said...

The majority of Blu-ray releases are on the 25gb single layer Blu-ray disc.
So much for the need for bigger space (which 51gb HD DVD now matches anyway).

It's perfectly clear that not enough PS3 owners use them for movies, otherwise the 10:1+ advantage in players that Blu-ray is supposed to have would be reflected in the movie disc sales numbers.
They are not.

In fact after the excellent Q4 HD DVD has had it turns out that on 'like-for'like' sales (Harry Potter being a prime example) Blu-ray may have been beaten by HD DVD - or, at best, only slightly beaten HD DVD.

When the tidal wave of $100 HD DVD players hit in a couple of months this is all over.

Stand by for WEarner's announcement at CES and the HD DVD conference.

They sure as hell won't be standing up to say they are going to be going Blu-ray exclusive, or any of the rest of that trademark patronising lying Blu-ray propaganda BS.

 
At December 22, 2007 8:35 AM , Anonymous Joe Whip said...

GUys, pleae try to take the high road. Let's not turn this into an AVS style mud slinging contest on this issue. As for Baff's cooment on the internet, just a thought but think back to what the net was 5 years ago. What do you think it will be like in another 5 years with technology growing at an even faster rate than 5 years ago? Enough said.

 
At December 22, 2007 11:16 AM , Blogger Harry said...

If the format wars ended tomorrow and one of the existing formats, or a third format emerged as the single HD optical source, then hardware manufacturers and studios would both see exponential increases in sales. Whatever Warner gives up in the short run on the loss of sales of one or the other format is minuscule in comparison to the sales they would pick up once a single format is established and people start replacing their DVD’s with new HD discs.

 
At December 22, 2007 12:30 PM , OpenID mrbarker2312 said...

DaveBG... There are many Blu releases on BD50... And not a single release on HD-DVDs 51GB disc... so to argue the point of what HD-DVD can do, you must also argue for the BD100 and BD200 discs because at this point they are as prevelant as the HD-DVD 51GB disc.. Paramount went exclusive to HD-DVD and they still have not won a week of sales. If Warner goes HD-DVD exclusive which they wont, how much impact are we really looking at. Every feature HD-DVD offered that Blu didnt.. Blu now does with profile 1.1. The wave of $100 HD-DVD were discontinued models they wanted to try and dump and get people interested in the format. Consumers bought the hardware, but still not the movies. Blu-Ray now has 3 players under $300.. so the price of the hardware is now growing closer, because you can not walk into a store today and pick up one of those $100 HD-DVD players.. Instead of being so biased about one side why dont we all check our facts before posting. As I previously stated this a war of content.. Pick the format that has the movies you want, but dont argue techincal specs because Blu-Ray is far above HD-DVD in that aspect

..Oh and Im format neutral as well

 
At December 22, 2007 12:31 PM , Blogger Baff said...

I don't really disagree with you that downloads are the way of the future. It just has a lot of hurdles to overcome to make it strong enough to wipe out everything else.

Computers are no longer advancing at the insane rate they had for about 50 years. They no longer need to be replaced every 3-5 years. 5 years from now a huge number of people will still be using the same computer they are using now, though some will have upgraded their graphics cards and RAM. This won't stop your 5-year plan, just means that if the main future HD DL option involves computers then it will require people to buy an add-on. It will not be something that will have market saturation because it became standard in new computers (like CD/DVD drives, etc).

Other currently available hardware (PS3, 360, AppleTV, TiVo, DVRs) don't have a big enough install base (and likely still won't 5 years from now when they will be approaching the end of their life cycles). They also don't have the capacity to store an HD movie collection.

The solution will likely be the AppleTV2 or something like it that has a 10TB hard drive and is easily expandable. In order to overcome the head start that Blu-Ray/HD-DVD will have, it will need to be less than $100 for the base unit and allow you to rip movies off your DVD/Blu-Ray/HD-DVD discs (like music now). Early adopters are busily re-buying their movie collections now, most will not be interested in jumping on a new bandwagon and re-buying again in so short a time.

Music had a huge incentive to go digital: The fact that it is not feasible to carry a 100+ cd collection around with you. HD movies do not have that incentive. HD movies are for playing at home on a huge TV (where people tend to have space to store a collection), not for playing on iPods or other handhelds. Its always possible that HD headsets that emulate large screens will become popular, but I doubt it.

The alternative is that people don't store any of the movies they buy. A cheap ($100 or less) Netflix/Blockbuster/whatever set-top box that downloads/plays HD could be just the thing. This I can see really taking off in 2-3 years and becoming a household standard in 5 years. This would require the movie studios to completely give up on high priced movie discs and high priced VOD and fully embrace reasonably priced movie rental downloads (My concern is that when they see the old markets fading, they will panic and either jack up how much they charge for downloads or insist on some insane DRM that drives everyone away or cripples the entire system (sometimes they are their own worst enemy)). Further complicating things will be the dropping price of VOD as the cable/satellite companies struggle to keep it viable.

Whatever hardware form HD downloads take, we will need to be seeing the beginnings of it in the next 2 years if it is going to dominate within 5 years.

You may well be right about HD downloads dominating in 5 years. It wouldn't surprise me though if the studios continued to fight it and each other (despite any of their claims about wanting to embrace it).

If the right combination of things happen, HD downloads could win out in less than 5 years. If we end up with an HD Download/VOD war or any of a dozen other stupid (but possible) things happen, then Blu-Ray/HD-DVD will have time to become fully entrenched and it could be 10+ years before they are replaced.

 
At December 22, 2007 3:12 PM , Anonymous Joe Whip said...

We will just have to agreee to disagree Baff. I see optical video media going down the drain, just like CD's are going to downloads. I think that the studios will learn from the mistakes that their audio brethern made and embrace downloads and take advantage of the technology its affords to give them more control over their content.

As for HD media taking over, it casn't even compete with DVD. People crow about 130,000 in sales of Pirates 3, if those figure are accurate, but the DVD sold what, 3 million. The problem with HDM isn't the war, it is price. The masses are happy with DVD. HDM doesn't offer enough of an upgrade to someone watching on a sub 40" TV sitting 10 to 15 feet away. THis is not VHS vs. DVD. They want a sub $100 player and sub $18 discs. Gee, they walk into Best Buy and see The Simpsons for $34.99 or $12.99. Guess which one most walk out with. It even plays in thier laptop and portable and car DVD players. That is the real issue, not the war.

 
At December 22, 2007 3:58 PM , OpenID mrbarker2312 said...

Very Well Said Joe Whip... I have to fully agree with you on this one.. The Hi-Def war is only about 10% of consumers.. the other 90% are happy with their $15 or less DVDs

 
At December 23, 2007 6:16 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

can i also point out something!
why do the main headlines on hd dvd always point out the bad point of hd dvd talk about bias!
here is a made up review and what they would do with the headline.
harry potter and the squaters rights has sold over 1 million on hd and 42 copys on blu ray this is an amazing sales figure for hd dvd but blu ray fans feel that the picture art on the bluray was better.
here are what the headlines would say!!!!!!!!
BLU RAY PICTURE IS FAR BETTER THAN HD.

December 23, 2007 6:09 AM

 
At December 25, 2007 1:06 PM , Anonymous POLLOFRITO said...

We should all want both formats, period! There is nothing wrong with havving a dual format. I personally would want a dual format player when they become affordable. As a consumer, I am looking for the best deals and having both formats at each others throat competing for my money only means savings in the long run for me.$$$$$$$$$$$$

 
At December 26, 2007 5:36 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

i've made a decision to go with hd-dvd. i'm not sure that everyone will feel the same as i do but i've seen both hd-dvd and blu-ray movies and they both look great. i couldn't see any difference. so i went with the best player i could find for the best price. it didn't seem to matter where i looked the hd-dvd players were cheaper. the longer i looked blu-ray was starting to look like blu-sky. if you can't see or hear a difference why pay a difference?

 
At December 26, 2007 1:09 PM , Anonymous Preferrs_Apple said...

1) Of course Planet Earth will sell really well on HD-DVD...what else do they have? That tells me that the hd-dvd owners are bored. Aside from Bourne Ultimatum and Shrek, there's not much that I'm missing. On the other hand, there's Pirates of the Caribbean, Ratattouille, Harry Potter... I'm sure I'm missing something from both sides, but I prefer the library of Blu-ray over HD-DVD, and that's why I'd play more for a player. $200 for a hd-dvd player that wastes space as opposed to $300 for a blu-ray player that will be actually used...

2) Anyone who wants Hi-Def and has kids will pick blu-ray. One word: Disney. My kid prefers watching Harry Potter on the blu-ray over the DVD. She can tell the difference. She can't tell me what makes it better, but I've tried swapping when she isn't looking and she tells me to change it back.

3) HD-DVD has "The Matrix" trilogy as an exclusive and the STILL can't win or even break even with blu-ray? That's sad.

4) Many people say HD-DVD has the better online experience. HD-DVD needs online connectivity because its encryption has been cracked. HD-DVD needs you to go online so you can verify you're not playing a burned copy. NEVER let Microsoft tell you how to encrypt your files.

5) Many say HD-DVD is the preferred format because manufacturers prefer it because it's cheaper to burn on HD-DVD then blu-ray. That is NOT true. Yes, if you have single layer HD-DVD pressed vs single layer Blu-Ray pressed, the HD-DVD is cheaper. HOWEVER, HD-DVD is pressed at dual layer to match Blu-Ray's single layer. This means for most movies, the Blu-Ray was cheaper to make. if HD-DVD goes to 51gb, it will be more expensive than Blu-Ray's 50gb, and if Blu-Ray goes to 75gb, HD-DVD would need another two layers to beat it! (Not that they ever would.)

6) I do a lot of photo and video editting. Video editting is AWFUL on a PC. If you're only doing you-tube, I guess it would be ok on a pc, but for real video editting-say a 2 hr video project that has 8 hours of source photage, every professional I talk to would rather get another job or face waterboarding than use a PC. (And yes, it IS torture and cruel and unusual punishment, which makes it unconstitutional.) That Mac commercial where the PC and Mac compare their home movies-yes, it's really like that. Apple's laptops can be upgraded for blu-ray right now, and apple's on the Blu-Ray board so as a working video person, I have to choose blu-ray.

 
At December 29, 2007 9:12 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I chose RED because a year ago last month Bill Gates said "for $199. you can start watching High Def movies right now. And here's King Kong too."

I liked Blu-ray's white paper better, but it was the price that motivated me. Now, from what I see, the bandwith and capacity issues are moot. Both deliver Excelent PQ & AQ. So now we have two types of storage disks that are incompatable and thats not good for selling movies. DVD's success is due to the avalibity of buying movies (and everyone likes movies) on ONE format. That was the Key to the Billions it makes every year. Movies are main stream products that need a single format, like gas, telephones and tosters. No one is going to buy a Blu-ray player because they feel Colombia Pictures puts out a better product than the other Studios. Game platforms can survive on mutiple platforms movies can't.

The train wreak already happend when Toshiba and Sony were too hard headed to compromise on a single format. It's a mess and there is no easy way out now. You are going to piss off a lot of consumers when they are told they resently purchaced a boat anchor and coffee coasters. It's like some Billion dollar major corporations looked at the great sucess of the DVD and said "Lets do this again, but this time lets **** it up!"

 
At December 30, 2007 9:32 AM , Anonymous Preferrs_Apple said...

I guess my comment was too long.

-it's not just Columbia Pictures. So far, Disney's only movies are on blu-ray as well. If Disney flips, then I'll consider hd-dvd. Otherwise, hd-dvd is being given more credit than it deserves. The players may or may not be moving, but the media sales are strongly in favor of blu-ray. The US is where HD-DVD is strongest and they're being outsold 2:1. In Europe, Australia and Asia it's being outsold by an even greater margin. That's not statistical noise, it's a clear preference by the consumer.

-hd-dvd's copy encryption has been cracked. This means to tighten up the security to compensate you have to 1)invalidate the early hd-dvd players, or 2)require all players be connected to the internet for hardware validation a la Windows genuine advantage. (Sound familiar windows users?) If you say they're not going to tighten the encryption somehow...I highly doubt it.

Piracy is taking a chunk out of the movie studio's revenue. I firmly believe this is the REAL reason the movie industry brought out blu-ray and hd-dvd in the first place. Dvd was cracked far faster than they anticipated, and the fact that it's digital means copies are just as good as the original. Toshiba and Sony failed to agree because Sony wanted much better encryption than AACS, since they are also a movie studio. Toshiba didn't want to because AACS would have been easier and cheaper to implement.

 
At December 30, 2007 9:54 AM , Anonymous Preferrs_Apple said...

Forgot to mention:

DVD's were successful because (some silly reasons below):

1) You don't have to rewind. Instant access to any chapter you want.
2) Subtitles and multiple audio tracks. For those hardcore fans or people who want to try to understand Marlon Brando in "The Godfather," subtitles actually come in handy.
3) Cleaner video and surround sound audio. So you can more clearly hear Marlon Brando mumble.
4) More compact. 100 dvd's takes up much less space that 100 tapes. I have friends who throw away the boxes and keep just the disks in CD wallets. Having a CD wallet full or DVD's makes any airline flight better. You can also throw them like ninja stars to fight off Zombies. (Just like "Shawn of the Dead.")
5) Shiny. The consumer will always pick the shiny choice over the big black box. (C'mon, tell me that's not true!)
6) PS2.
7) My child has pulled out the tape out of numerous VHS tapes, giggling "pretty ribbon". The worst she did to DVD's was she tried to load a DVD in the oven and watch it on the screen. Since then, I copy my dvd's, put the original out of reach, and she watches the copies. No, I won't make extra copies for you. I think it's legal due to fair use. I refuse to buy multiple copies of "Barney" or "Teletubbies" on DVD.

There are multiple formats for DVD. At weddings, I would always burn the slideshow on DVD+ and DVD- media, and more than once I've been glad I did. Toshiba was the only one who insisted on DVD-R. Everyone else was fine with DVD+R. Sony and Philips insisted on DVD+R. There is still no DVD-DL, only DVD+DL. Who needs more than 4.5gb of pictures on a disk? My wedding customers deserve full resolution jpgs of their weddings. 21 megapixel portraits can eat up 4.5g really fast. (21 megapixels is not overkill for one of the more important days of a person's life.) I take about 1600 pictures for a 8-12 hour wedding, I thin it down to 1100, the customer whittles it down to 800. They are all burned onto DVD's and fedexed to their door. They take it to Costco and print it themselves. I usually have to burn 3 dvd's for my average wedding. The newest cameras can do over 30 megapixels now. Higher capacity disks can't come soon enough.

 
At January 4, 2008 1:51 PM , Anonymous ForeverMan said...

I just read online today's news that WB has picked BlueRay over HD DVD for their movies to official stop HD DVDs in May.

 
At January 5, 2008 12:27 AM , Anonymous Preferrs_Apple said...

Ouch.

-Now waiting for the other shoe to drop.